Stop window size from saving to the cloud

[mathlete2]

@MarkusBodensee said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

Window position and size, also from search dialogue etc, depend on the hw you are using.

Yes, but the point that I (and I believe others) are making is that you have full control over any defaults/initial values that you ultimately store:

If the back-ups that you currently have don’t contain values that make sense for some situations, change them. Deleting the lines that are machine-dependent should ensure that NP++ automatically uses sensible defaults the next time you use it, but as you mentioned, you can also store multiple copies to accommodate different machines if you really want to.

[superluig164]

@mathlete2 I’m gonna chime in again and say that, while you’re right that the user can work around it, I disagree with this take strongly. If Notepad++ wouldn’t have a “cloud and link” section in settings, with an explicit option to sync settings, this would indeed fall into the user’s hands to work around. But it does. It has explicit support for cloud syncing of settings, thus, it needs to handle machine/environment-dependent settings and user-defined settings properly.

In the interest of not just providing my piece without a solution, blindly syncing config.xml in this way is not the way to do it. Instead, the local config.xml can contain all the lines, and when saving the config file to the cloud location specified, Notepad++ can exclude any lines that are machine/environment-dependent.

[mathlete2]

@superluig164 said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

while you’re right that the user can work around it, I disagree with this take strongly. If Notepad++ [didn’t] have a “cloud and link” section in settings, with an explicit option to sync settings, this would indeed fall into the user’s hands to work around

I think you misunderstood my point: I never once said that it should be up to users to work around these issues, I merely pointed out that users can in fact do so in this particular case.

This is why I pointed out that you used a bad example to compare to. I wasn’t saying that your overall argument is invalid, just that your premise wasn’t as strong as you seemed to think. FWIW, I agree that there’s value to the feature that you requested, but it’s not particularly urgent given that the limitation is easy to work around.

[Lycan Thrope]

@superluig164 said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

If Notepad++ wouldn’t have a “cloud and link” section in settings, with an explicit option to sync settings,

Where does it say that the Cloud section in settings, has an explicit option to sync settings.

I don’t see that reference anywhere in the context of syncing with all machines, only the files in that specific cloud locaion. To do what you suggest, would require each machine to have distinct machine settings files, that are referenced per machine, saved to that cloud location. ie. desktop_config.xml, laptop_config.xml for there to be a differentiation.

When you have both machines referencing the same cloud directory, using the same default config.xml file, it will use the same config.xml file that was saved there, last. Each machine does not specify it’s files to be deliniated like that, so if you want the functionality of each NOT using the other’s settings for those particular settings, you should try the work arounds given, because if there is a solution easily workable for an individual to accomplish what they want, without requiring all users to need to have access to that functionality and clogging up their features dialogs, then you should try it and see if it suffices for what you need.

Otherwise, the feature request you’ve submitted, is the proper route to seek a change automated or convenient if the developer thinks it’s worth their time…else the suggestions given work and should be tried by you in the interim.

Update: Using NPPUISpy, I cant find any reference other than Syncing scrolling windows horizontally, vertically or syncronizing markdown editor viewer. So there is no explicit option to sync settings of config.xml file pertaining to different machines from the cloud.

[superluig164]

@Lycan-Thrope What are you talking about? Just don’t sync machine-dependent settings at all. Keep them local. Only sync the relevant settings.

Also, what do you mean where does it specify the explicit option to sync? What would you propose any other purpose would be for this feature to be in settings? Why would it be called cloud & link if this was not what it was for? Forgive me, but I really don’t understand how this is something that should fall on the user whatsoever. Again, if it was not in settings for this purpose, then yes, it would. But it is, and so it’s up to the developer of the application to ensure it works smoothly. Otherwise why have the option in settings at all? Anyone can sync the folder from AppData, if anything it’s better that way because it’ll sync plugins as well. And it doesn’t, so clearly we already know there is a difference between things that should be synced and things that shouldn’t, so why is the window size not considered one of those things, but your installed plugins are?

Additionally, how exactly does this clog any dialogs? It would be a completely silent fix. Just… don’t sync those things. That’s it.

Apologies if I misunderstand something, but I’m very surprised and confused by the pushback here.

[Lycan Thrope]

@superluig164 said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

What are you talking about? Just don’t sync machine-dependent settings at all. Keep them local. Only sync the relevant settings.

What I’m talking about, is your perceived notion of the meaning of the plain language, Cloud & Link and how you think it should operate.

Your use case, is specific to you. Most people don’t use the cloud option to save settings between multiple machines. Just one, and it’s used as a safety back up location so those files are safe should updates or other gremlins occur on a working copy locally. It was never, and does not word itself to be a repository for multiple machine settings.

That’s why the pushback. You are assuming what the functionality was meant to be, not what it is meant to be. First understand the purpose of the feature before you expect it to do things it wasn’t intended to do.

I’m not challenging your feature idea, it’s probably a good idea, but it’s not currently what that feature entails and you’re trying to attribute to it, features it wasn’t meant to entail.

[superluig164]

@Lycan-Thrope If what you say is true, why is the feature called “Link?” Backup I could understand, if that’s what it was called, but it’s not. “Link” implies the intention to link between multiple installations. And again, it doesn’t sync plugins, so clearly there was some thought that certain things can’t be properly synced between installs, right?

[Lycan Thrope]

@superluig164 said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

@Lycan-Thrope If what you say is true, why is the feature called “Link?” Backup I could understand, if that’s what it was called, but it’s not. “Link” implies the intention to link between multiple installations. And again, it doesn’t sync plugins, so clearly there was some thought that certain things can’t be properly synced between installs, right?

Have you even read the Online User Manual at all? That would be a good starting point. To quote:

Clickable Link Settings: Affects behavior of URLs in your document.

Like I said, you’re assuming what it does, without reading what it actually does.

[PeterJones]

@superluig164,

Stop getting angry at people just because they disagree with you, or are pointing out problems with your argument. You’ve put the feature request in the right place. The only purpose of further discussion here is for people to express their opinions and preferences, and maybe warn of shortcomings of the proposal (though any true, technical shortcomings should be expressed in the issue, so that the developer doesn’t make decisions based on incomplete or inaccurate information).

As I said before, I personally disagree with your assessment of how “easy” it will be to separate “machine dependent” settings – if I didn’t make it clear, it’s because not everyone will agree on what’s “machine dependent” and what’s not. (For example, someone who wants to sync dimensions of 1080x720 across all their machines through the cloud would be upset if your assertion that application-size is machine-dependent caused them to have to manually set their preferred size on every PC they use their cloud-settings on.)

I’m very surprised and confused by the pushback here.

Because talking about the ideas behind the suggestion is all we can do here; decision making and implementation are contained in the GH Issue. And since not everyone here has a “me too / that’s exactly what I want” response, it comes across to you as pushback.

@Lycan-Thrope ,

Most people don’t use the cloud option to save settings between multiple machines.

You might not. But I have a feeling there are quite a few who do: I have always interpreted the purpose of the Cloud as the dual function of being able to back up the settings and be able to easily share them across machines. So I completly understand @superluig164’s desire to sync across PCs… I just don’t think that his definition of “machine-dependent” will be applicable to all, and that it will be harder to separate those out than implied, as a result.

@superluig164 said, while I was typing this up,

If what you say is true, why is the feature called “Link?”

Because the “Link” settings are separate settings from the Cloud settingss, hence being in two different boxes.

The Developer has a “crowded” approach to settings, where he’d rather group together as many settings as possible into each page. (The Cloud settings were separate at one point, but he needed to move the Link settings from a different page, and since the Cloud settings page had room, he joined them into one multi-purpose page.) Bad UX? Possibly. But that’s the way it is.

[Lycan Thrope]

@PeterJones ,
I was going to respond to him, a possible fix and then I saw your response pop up. Agreed, I had also thought about people using the cloud settings for different machines, but most likely didn’t give a hoot about the inconvenience of resizing or maximizing the window.

If he wants different config.xml files for each machine, it would seem to be, that creating a separate directory on GoogleDrive, and a corresponding directory on his local GoogleDrive and pointing each machine to their GoogleDrive local directory each pointing to a diffent directory with the saved settings on GoogleDrive, would solve his problem, but that would take initiative on his part to do that, rather than assuming a developer should have read his mind and implemented it for his convenience. This from someone that doesn’t use multiple machines (yet) with cloud settings saving needs.

[PeterJones]

@superluig164 said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

And again, it doesn’t sync plugins, so clearly there was some thought that certain things can’t be properly synced between installs, right?

It doesn’t sync plugins, because the plugins aren’t ever stored in AppData, and the Cloud settings are meant to store certain settings that would normally be in AppData in the Cloud instead. And it apparently doesn’t store plugin settings, either, despite them being stored in the AppData folder; I personally have expressed my opinion to the Developer that the plugin settings should be part of what’s put in the Cloud folder, but he disagrees.

thought that certain things can’t be properly synced

And those are kept in separate files. Trying to separate out different settings that are all stored in the same config.xml would be impractical, so the settings that aren’t sync’d would have to be separated out into a different file from the ones that are synced. And, once again, I don’t agree that there’s as clear a separation of the two as you have in your mind.

And it’s my guess that the Developer will not choose to pick-and-choose to extract some settings that have been in config.xml for time-immemorial to suddenly be in some separate file all of a sudden, without a really good reason (and I am doubtful that your current Issue description would be convincing enough, though I’ve been wrong about my guesses of the Developer’s actions before, and will be again).

[PeterJones]

@Lycan-Thrope said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

If he wants different config.xml files for each machine,

But that’s not what he wants – or, not fully. To me, it’s obvious wants most of his settings the same between the different machines, but he just doesn’t think that window size should be part of those synced settings.

[Lycan Thrope]

@PeterJones ,
What I read that he wants, is for him to just save his settings to GoogleDrive, and be able to use it for two machines, with the program having the mind reading ability to differentiate which one is using it. Basically, he wants the app to change for his needs, rather than trying to find a way to implement what he wants without making the app change.

Would that be an erroneous read?

Edit: I agree with what you post above, but like this conversation, what one reads, is sometimes dependent on someone’s view. Which is why we discuss things and hash it out, until both parties are understanding the root issue. :-) Or a possible solution.

[PeterJones]

@Lycan-Thrope said in Stop window size from saving to the cloud:

Would that be an erroneous read?

I think it’s an unfair rephrasing of what he said. I stand by my summary sentence.

Basically, he wants the app to change for his needs,

When you boil it down, that’s what all feature requests are.

I don’t fault him for his request, or for wanting Notepad++ to cater to him – we all do, to some extent or another. I just don’t think he’s going to be given what he wants, and I’m not convinced that the implementation he envisions will be as practical or as universally-accepted as he seems to think it will.

[Lycan Thrope]

@PeterJones ,
Agreed, although I did give him several chances to understand what I was getting at, before I became unfair. :-) As a goup, we also gave him several ways to accomplish the goal, but he was rebuffing those for the app change option.

[Lycan Thrope]

@PeterJones ,
I think I’m going to go try my suggestion, using the Standard install and a portable install and save both to GoogleDrive in different directories on the GoogleDrive cloud.

[Lycan Thrope]

@Lycan-Thrope , @superluig164 , @PeterJones
Indeed, my suggestion does work.

I hate using Cloud stuff, but for the sake of testing, I used my GoogleDrive, setup two identical directories on the GoogleDrive Cloud side, and also in my Desktop GoogleDrive syncing drive.

I then enabled and then pointed my Standard Install NPP to the local GoogleDrive directory and did the same with the portable install pointing to the Portable directory on the GoogleDrive local directory.

I closed both and restarted them, and then left the portable install editor window not maximized, and sitting in the lower right corner of the screen, and the Standard install full screen maximized.

My GoogleDrive saved settings were as such:
Portable:

<GUIConfig name="AppPosition" x="502" y="153" width="1100" height="700" isMaximized="no" />

Standard:

<GUIConfig name="AppPosition" x="3" y="4" width="725" height="700" isMaximized="yes" />

So, as you see, the concept works, and since you are a GoogleDrive user @superluig164 , the solution is very simple for someone adept at using their GoogleDrive to solve such a thorny issue.

Now I don’t like using Cloud syncing, because I back up my drive stuff, and I hate the slow and sometimes problematic issues that using a Cloud drive presents. For instance, my UDL was already installed in each version. Enabling the Cloud directory forced me to have to reinstall files that were already existing, so they could be copied to the Cloud directories. That was inconvenient, but I did it to be throrough and make sure the system worked as I was suggesting it might for proof of concept.

There is the solution that you need @superluig164 , for your multiple machine issue. No application modification needed. The application works as you wish, as long as you set up the proper Drive locations where you can separate those machine’s settings in your GoogleDrive system.

Enjoy.

[Lycan Thrope]

@Lycan-Thrope ,
In hindsight, and after re-reading the issue, it seems that other than the app change removing the AppPosition from the config.xml file(unlikely?), @Alan-Kilborn 's suggestion would be the best for using his GoogleDrive Cloud setup with just one config.xml for multiple machines. He has already rebuffed that, so unless he reconsiders, I guess we’ll have to wait and see if his feature request gets approved and implemented. Moving on.